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Wednesday, 05 September 2001 -
Goodbye, Thorian ? $comment_count ?>
Frank Nuccio just announced that Joe "Thorian" Bako has moved from his position as lead admin of the US CAL Quake division, to be replaced by Methos and Chris King.
Farewell Thorian. I wish they could move you from making messageboard comments too. Methos is somebody who does have "people skills", and CPL-Chris too. So maybe together they can ressurect CAL Q3 and turn it into something enjoyable and successful. Hopefully we won't see the Quake community in the US tear itself apart for too much longer.
The way things look from here, things have been deteriorating in CAL-Q3-land for the last few weeks, until Methos quit and basically threatened to 'tell the truth' on his website Methos Quake.
As for the tell all book, I will be updating my site later today with some info about my decision to leave. Depending on how the CPL and Thorian / Joe react, I will give more info as we go.
Keep in mind that I do have every log of every conversation with CAL and I can tell you that if you're a player in CAL, some of it will disgust you and other parts will make you angry.
I gave a brief update on my site. At the request of the CPL, I am waiting until they decide what (if anything) they're going to do about the current situation.
... Obviously, for now, it's a wait and see game. I will be posting, I just don't know how down and dirty it will get.
Ray (Methos)
Source: CHUS
It does bother me a bit that after this threat, Methos gets "promoted", because it makes it look as if the guy we are all used to seeing "telling it like it is" on his website was "bought off". I guess we can wait to see what Methos says on this subject.
Check out Challenge.US for more on this subject and the CPL's sudden (and sure to be controversial) decison to ban Clan Knightmare.
The latter issue appears to illustrate the depth to which the Q3A "community" has in the past alienated Angel Munoz, and thus why, in part, it might be that the CPL in the US quit "doing Q3A events", and why we are seeing steps to "lay down the law" in CPL pro-gaming today.
"As far as my approach to the Quake "community", all I can say is that you should engage in a refresher reading session and also familiarize yourself with the insults and personal threats I personally had to endure. The one that pushed me over the edge, was an annonymous email threating my children. That's when I knew I would never want to be part of that "community" again".
SOURCE: Clan Knightmare, post by Angel on CPL Forums and subsequently deleted.
I tell you what, I would be feeling the exact same way, and nobody should really be surprised that Angel has exhausted most of his goodwill towards the US Q3 scene. He has surely had to endure pretty much every immature and paranoid accusation festering in the frontal lobe of a 13 year old imaginable.
What's also true, though, is that many legitimate points and issues have been mixed up in the rotton soup. It's also true that Angel can exhibit a proclivity to be overly defensive and "reach for the lawyers". In sum, it's probably just a bummer that Q3 in the US has gotten itself into the situation where, as a "community", it has a really bad relationship with the head of the world's biggest "pro gaming" outfit.
If you demonise the CPL, I guess you don't care, but some people wouldn't mind playing Q3A competitively for money or following a thriving "pro scene".
It makes you wonder why anyone would want to try and construct "pro gaming" with the Quake community as-is. Oh wait, that's right, they're not. That's precisely why The CPL is implementing long-term plans to introduce some "law and order" to "pro-gaming". That's why Mike Wardwell talks about the 'future CPL game' not being 'like Quake'. That's why we're seeing all these changes, like the age limit, the 'real names' instead of nicks, and many new rules for behaviour. No-one should be surprised.
My guess is that Thorian has been privvy to a lot of these internal discussions about the Q3A "community" and he tried, with all the subtlety of a bull in a china shop, to show that he could bring the recalcitant US Q3A community to heel. Guess what, it's like herding cats and you need to have real skills in diplomacy.
Of all the people in the US Q3 scene who could bring some common sense into the equation, Methos and CPL-Chris are two names that do come to mind. Many of the other people supporting them in CAL-land are also top-notch.
With Thorian gone, the baying crowds have got their head on a stake. Now maybe it's time to give the CAL and its new team a chance.
Comments
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Hey Hoony,
"Joe 'Thorian' Bako has been sacked"
I volunteered to switch positions to something more my style. How is that being sacked?
"My guess is that Thorian has been privvy to a lot of these internal discussions about the Q3A 'community'"
I've had no interaction with the CPL at all. Only thing I've ever asked Angel or Mike for is the rules from the Quakeworld event.
"and he tried... to show that he could bring the recalcitant US Q3A community to heel."
Heh, all I did was run a league. I don't see why people turn it into something it isn't. You either play or you don't, no big deal. I don't hear the West coast complaining one bit, considering the entire scene has been rejuvenated just from this one league. Oh, the word is "recalitrant" FYI. The fact you use that word suggests that it didn't matter if I was in charge or not, people would be resistant to ANY authority. That's pretty true, considering Falc and Bishop got just as much trash as I did and yet QIL is concerned the best online tournament ever. But hey, that wouldn't play into the Thorian-bashing right?
The least you could have done is used a current picture :
BTW, you should take that one down since you never got my permission to use it. I MIGHT SUE!!! (coff)
Thanks,
Joe Bako |
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http://www-scf.usc.edu/~jbako/joe.jpg
You can Photoshop that one all you want! |
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i dont like thorian for the way he acted any more then the next guy. i have some idea about what it takes to run a league and its not easy.
its very convenient for CAL/CPL to focus all their problems with the Q3 community on him now, of course. funny how they were supporting him and boasting about thorians qualities just a few days ago.
im wondering what will happen to methos when he doesnt meet the bussiness goals in due time. |
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recalitrant = recalcitrant
concerned = considered
ok, sorry, i'm out! |
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Joe,
well if you volunteered to move then I was wrong to say you were sacked, but dammit it sounded more dramatic. I'll change that in a 'mo (after dinner)
with the other stuff, I did say "my guess is...". and typos aside, I think Quake players are generally resistant to authority, maybe more so than the average chess club, but the issue (it seemed to me, spectating from afar) was more with your *approach* to exercising authority.
it took me ages to find that picture, until I hit on using google 'image search' (very handy). then it took me ages to 'transform' it into the work of art and design we see there now. since it was really blurry and I had to enlarge it I used that texturing and a lot of mucking around with contrast and colours. So, in short, although the new pic is much better (thx for that) I will have to save it for a later article.
As you can tell, I'm really not a fan of your "approach" but I will certainly acknolwedge that you have many good ideas and a lot of energy and dedication. I haven't really seen anyone who didn't acknowledge these qualities. So moving out of the 'people managing' area is probably a very good thing to do in the circumstances.
Good luck with the future work and I sincerely hope you can pick up some 'people skills' along the way, but if not, plenty of ppl survive fine without them
Richard (Hoony) |
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Why are so many hell bent on making Thorian out to be a fucking dictator who failed with his ludicrous ideas??? He's one guy who IMO has *HELPED* the Q3 scene a whole lot and he should be commended for the good things he did instead of being ridiculed in articles like this one.
Also, Hoony, he asked you to take down that ridiculous picture, so wtf can't you do just that, it's not exactly a pretty picture and he's likely offended by it (I know I would be), so the least you can do is remove it completely or do as he suggested and use the unedited version of the one he linked to. |
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ok, so no-one else can be offended by my artwork I've removed it, tho I think it wasn't so terrible as Strider makes out.
something resembling the exagerrated perception that you describe is held by ppl, tho I'm not using language like that in this article, and if there is a cause for that perception it most likely derives somehow from his approach in dealing with various critics and issues.
I don't claim to have a detailed explanation for you on that one beyond that.
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| This wasn't Joe's idea. He got moved against his will, quite obviously. Might as well call it what it is. |
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Hoony: It wasn't that the old picture was terrible or offensive, it was more about the low quality and due to the editing, it turning out to be a not so pleasant image compared to the one Thorian suggested you use.
Also, I can see you weren't painting him in the light that some have tried to do although you do make some derogatory remarks about him that suprised me. He also had a lot of support but as is usually the case, the ones who opposed him were much more vocal and visible than anyone else. |
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I knew you were a more upstanding person than the orginal article lead to believe.
At first I was againt the idea of being moved out of the league administration side of CAL. I had spent so much time and effort just trying to get some new ideas out there that it seemed like such a waste. However, I've been working pretty closely now with a lot of the Invite teams and the general consensus is that we've stumbled onto something good here. They are looking at using the current format but tweaking it a bit, such as 4 mg damage with 10/12 minute periods on maybe different maps. Everything was up to discussion.
I'm confident that those fellas will keep up with the innovation in Q3TDM. I admit, the incapatible CAL software was what sent me searching for new ways to try the game in the first place. However, I'm not one to just go out and make a decision if it hurts the game simply because it's easier. I ran the idea by quite a few people and many were excited to give it a try before I made it official.
I realize I'm not the greatest at PR, and that's why I agreed to move on into another area of CAL. I still get to work with all kinds of cool things, but at the same time I don't have to worry about maintaining a specific image for the sake of others. Methos has been involved since day one so he should be great at keeping things moving. Also the teams now have some ground to work with, so let's hope they come up with even better ideas than those I offered.
Thanks again, Hoony. Deth, my lawyers will be contacting you (*snicker*, j/k). |
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Thorian, I'm shaking, as I'm sure you imagine. I'm also glad you graciously agreed to move out of your position, although it doesn't quite fit the personality trait you have always claimed was your strongest - that you never, never back down.
Despite your nonchalant attitude, I do hope you've learned something through all this. The community needs people willing to put in a lot of work, but some of the positions require a good deal of humility and team building skills, traits you have ridiculed numerous times. You've burnt alot of bridges that people in the league and out of the league are going to have to work pretty hard to build back again. It's happened before in other things though, will probably happen again with someone else, c'est la vie.
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Where is my Jerry Springer when I need him most? :)
For those not in the known (like myself), you can read Methos response to this at his website, www.methosq.com
I guess if anyone can make this work it's Methos; so GOOD LUCK Ray!
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| Where is the hoony vs methos demo on dm2 btw? :) |
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After reading Methos' page it's clear that he wasn't 'bought off' so the world is safe once more :).
There's a theory I've seen around the place that holds that Angel has cleverly gotten some of his toughest critics to work for the CPL thus 'shutting them up' to some extent. I think the theory has it that it's clever strategy (the 'art of war' etc, 'keeping your enemy close to you' etc). It's a theory which sounds good and there may be some truth in it (who knows) but life is complex and I think Methos wants to help make the online Q3 league work out and I think he will still speak out if he wants to / needs to. The thing is, now he has a chance to try his hand at it himself and that's a great opportunity to put some theory into practice. Who knows, maybe Q3 can make a comeback, what with CAL and other new leagues like Ressurection.
About that demo, rorshack, it will never be released for several reasons. firstly, because I fall into the lava far too much. secondly, because I think the score was [0, -1] or something (to Methos). and thirdly, because neither of us recorded a demo :). I can tell you, however, that the lag was so bad for me that I couldn't get across the platform to MH/GL. No matter that I could see the platform under my feet, I still fell right through it. I had one good shot in the whole game, though. Methos was running to RA/MH and I was chasing, a bit like Kane chasing Lakerman at TGi (*cough* ;-), except that I caught up with him, as he was standing by the lava trying to decide, I think, whether to risk jumping normally to RA/MH or do a backwards rocket jump. I came running up to that little rectangular room with the switch and the window and basically fired as soon as I could see the gap, without even waiting to see if Methos was there, because I KNEW that he HAD to be there, thanks to a "Thresh-like" moment of zen prediction. Got him right in the noggin. Didn't matter tho, I think I fell in the lava straight away trying to run to the Jesus Room. It's a demo the world is best left without :) |
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